Interview with Andrew Shotland
Today I get to interview one of my favorite reads in the SEO blogoshpere, Andrew Shotland. Andrew runs the Local SEO Guide blog and has graciously taken some of his time to share with us his thoughts on Local SEO.
1. You have an enjoyable, albeit unique, writing style. Lots of people write about things worth reading but much of what they write, or how the present it at least, makes it pretty forgettable. How much has your style helped you in acquiring and keeping visitors to your site, landing clients?
With the blog I just try to be myself and talk about what I think is interesting – and let’s face it local search, while often interesting, is not always interesting – so if I need to talk about doing keyword research for personal hygiene products to get my point across, so be it. It’s no different in how i interact with my clients. I think half the reason my business works is because maybe I know what I am doing and the other half is because I am totally myself with my clients/readers.
While I am serious about helping my clients succeed, I try not to be too serious about much else. I have a friend who ran a pretty cool web start-up. His wife was a phd focused on the palestinian situation in gaza. I remember her asking him when he was going to stop wasting his life and do something serious. That stuck with me. I used to think building companies was a meaningful way to spend your life, and I still do, but compared to trying to solve Middle East peace problems, SEO is not exactly ghandi-type work. So you better enjoy it.
2. In reading your Local Search Predictions for 2010, I found the point about Google not allowing “agency accounts” with respect to their Local Business Center pretty interesting. I imagine it would make it harder on small businesses, who likely don’t have time to manage their entire marketing campaign, to do the proper things within the LBC to make it work for them, thus make them less loyal to Google.
Do you think they will eventually implement that? They do that on the Adwords side and you can give agencies access to Analytics so what is with their reluctance with LBC? Do they want to engage the business directly and cut out the middle-person?
I really think they need to do this. First off, let’s face it, a huge number of businesses would rather have an agency deal with their LBC account. But agencies have to trick Google into getting control of their clients’ LBC accounts. It’s really just ridiculous.
Even worse is that there are so many businesses that have problems accessing their LBC accounts when they part ways with an agency. That’s a big problem. So it would make a lot of people’s lives much easier to have a system that solves these problems.
That said, Google’s POV on this is quite interesting. Googlers that work on LBC will tell you that the reason why many businesses would prefer an agency to manage their LBC account is not because these businesses have better things to do than figure out how to use the LBC, but rather because the LBC software design is not optimal. So if they come up with a better software design, then more businesses will use the service and there won’t be a need for agencies. I like the apollo-13/mcgyver-like thinking here, but i think that flies in the face of everything I’ve ever experienced with how SMB’s operate.
So I am optimistic that we’ll get some kind of agency user thing happening this year. But then again I thought health care reform would get passed in ‘09 so what do I know?
3. Some marketers entering the “local” scene have preconceived notions about local SEO/PPC not being worth the effort because “most small businesses are cheap, they don’t want to listen, and there is no search volume anyway”. How real are the concerns and was/is that something you’ve experienced?
A. There’s a ton of local search volume and Google, for one, has made big efforts to drive more web search traffic to local businesses (e.g. the 10 pack).
B. A lot of small businesses are definitely gun-shy about spending $ on SEO and search in general, but they are not stupid. The past year was a real watershed moment in terms of the number of SMB’s jumping on the SEO bandwagon. The number of companies selling these services has gone through the roof and there are plenty of success stories out there. So the questions from a lot of these SMB’s has gone from “wtf is SEO?” to “I know i need to figure this out. How can you help me?” While it’s still a tough pitch to get a lot of these smaller co’s to make the investment, all I can say is that there are plenty who are willing to step up and these are the ones who get great results and then help bring their peers into the market.
4. You mentioned a lot of small business can be gun-shy from an investment standpoint. Is getting a commitment on the dollar amount you need to make the campaign work the biggest hurdle in dealing with local SEO clients? If not, what is?
In my experience it’s not very hard to get money out of the clients who understand the value of SEO, or at least those who understand that they need to understand the value. If they don’t get it, then they are probably not worth pursuing. In my experience, the biggest challenge with these guys, big or small, is getting them to work on their sites to make sure that they are set up to convert. I am constantly surprised at businesses that know how to put together a TV or print ad that is designed to drive people into the store but don’t bother to apply the same rigor to setting up their web pages. This is a big reason why so many of us in the SMB marketing world use pages other than the client’s website to drive leads.
5. There are lots of places to advertise a site outside of search from a local marketing standpoint. what is your opinion on twitter, Facebook, and/or MySpace for local companies? The buzz seems to be Facebook is great for local businesses and local events, Twitter can be hit or miss, and MySpace is ehhhh.
The consensus in my little corner of the search marketing world is that Facebook is the place to be these days. Lot’s of cheap, highly qualified, easy-to-target traffic. I have found Twitter to be an interesting source of traffic, but you have to be pretty creative about it. You need to be a lot more socially engaged in Twitter to get a lot out of it. I think Twitter and Facebook are going to get a lot more locally-oriented over the next year so it should be fun to watch. Nothing against MySpace, but it’s not really a factor in my work.
6. Have you experienced any discernible difference between using the free listings vs paid listings/premium services on some of the big IYP’s you mentioned in your Top IYP’s for SEO 2009 post like Citysearch, Yelp, etc?
one of the biggest opportunities for local businesses is to understand how to optimize not just for Google, yahoo & Bing, but also for the big IYP’s the traffic that comes from these sites is uber-qualified and most of the time businesses that are advertising on these sites usually just set it and forget it. if you learn how to optimize your ad on say yellowpages.com, you can probably get just as much if not more business than from a well placed Google maps listing. for some of these sites there’s no discernible benefit to having a paid v. free listing, but for a few of the biggies, the paid listings allow you to manipulate your listing so that you can better optimize for the site’s internal search as well as for Google
7. What is the best way you find for targeting local keywords, since keyword tools aren’t so good at it? Checking the popular variations of broader terms and tacking on local modifiers or just jumping right into Adwords upfront when you take on a client?
Adwords is really the best way to test if there is traffic for a locally modified keyword, but of course most SMB’s would rather not spend the $ to figure that out. Most RBB’s (Really Big Businesses) won’t spend the bucks to figure this out either so why should the little guys be any different? That said, I have done enough of these projects for both big and small local search clients that I have a pretty good handle on what the queries are like for the big categories. And once you have done one in a market, the variation from market to market is usually not too big so you can kind of cookie cutter it a bit for those clients in new markets that don’t want to invest the time/money to test. This will likely cover 90% of the good queries.
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Thanks a bunch Andrew, great stuff as usual. To read more about Andrew and get more great local SEO tips and techniques please visit and subscribe to his blog over at LocalSeoGuide.Com
Shipping Sites See Surge In Online Web Traffic In December
Retail sites, shipping sites, and greeting cards sites all saw surges in traffic in December due to the holiday season, according to a new report from comScore.
“December proved to be a strong month for the retail category with Tuesday, Dec. 15 ranking as the heaviest online spending day of the year – and of all time – at $913 million,” said Jack Flanagan, executive vice president of comScore Media Metrix.
“Holiday seasonality also fueled visitation to Shipping sites, which continually see their highest volume of traffic during the month of December.”
Not surprisingly, retails sites climbed in December as Americans search the Internet for holiday deals. The top gaining retail categories were jewelry/luxury goods/accessories, sports/outdoor, and flower/gifts /greeting sites, each growing more than 20 percent compared to November.
Jewelry/luxury goods/accessories sites attracted nearly 23 million visitors during the month, representing a 30 percent increase from November. eBags led the category with 2.9 million visitors (up 28 %), followed by Coach.com with 2.2 million visitors (up 26 percent), Zale Corporation with 2.1 million (up 48 %) and Kay Jewelers with 1.7 million (up 69 %).
Sports/outdoor sites grew to nearly 39 million visitors during the month, a 25 percent increase compared to November, led by eBay Sports with 5.1 million visitors (up 21%), trailed closely by Cabelas with 5 million visitors (up 26%). Dicks Sporting Goods followed with 4.6 million visitors (up 39%) and Sports Authority with 2.9 million visitors (up 29%).
Flowers/gifts/greetings sites saw a 23-percent gain, reaching nearly 39.8 million unique visitors in December. American Greetings led the category with 13.6 million visitors (up 18 %), followed by Gifts.com with 6.8 million (up 49 %), Hallmark with 5.6 million (up 46 %) and 1-800-Flowers.com with 2.9 million (up 48 %).
Traffic to shipping sites spiked in December as Americans rushed to ensure delivery of their gift purchases in time for the holidays. The category attracted 36.6 million visitors during the month, representing a 33-percent increase in traffic. UPS sites led the category with 19.7 million visitors (up 51 %), followed by USPS.com with 15.9 million (up 40 %) and FedEx with 12.6 million (up 36 %).
The e-card category grew 29 percent to 31.7 million visitors. The most visited site was Evite with nearly 8 million visitors (up 16%), followed by AG Interactive with 6.7 million (up 46%), MyFunCards with 5.7 million, and 123Greetings with 4.3 million (up 55%).
Related Articles:
>Cyber Monday Deals Attract Online Shoppers
>Walmart Wins Thanksgiving, Amazon Wins Black Friday
>Online Retailers See Strong Cyber Monday Sales
Content Can Now Go Viral More Easily with Facebook
Over the past year or so, Facebook has made a number of moves, which bring more Twitter-like functionality to the social network. Some question why Facebook would want to become more like Twitter given that it is much more dominant in the social media space, but Facebook sees the growing-popularity of Twitter, and likely wants to make sure it offers everything users want, to keep them around for the long haul.
The latest Twitter-like feature to come to Facebook is the “share” button, which is pretty much Facebook’s answer to Twitter’s “retweet.” The feature was rolled out over the weekend, and appears as a text link on posts in your news feed that stem from links (”share” is currently not an option for regular status updates, photo uploads, etc.).
Just click “share” and you are presented with a pop-up window that allows you to share the link, and says “Via username” (although you can remove this):
Just like that, you have passed the link on to your own friends, which may or may not include a variety of people who aren’t friends of the original poster. This in effect makes Facebook an even more valuable tool for content publishers. It will help content go viral, spreading through new audienceses.
For some pros and cons of retweets, read this article. You can now apply some of these to Facebook’s share feature, because it works about the same (without the 140-character limit).
Related Articles:
> What’s Not to Like About Twitter’s New Retweet Feature?
> More to Retweeting Than Meets the Eye for Businesses?
> An Equation for Getting More Traffic from Twitter
eBay Declared ‘09 Mobile Retailer Of The Year
The last eBay-centric article to appear on WebProNews concerned mobile transactions during the holiday season; the company was quite proud of its stats and had made some noise about them. Now, there’s essentially been outside confirmation of its impressive performance, as eBay was declared the 2009 Mobile Retailer of the Year.
Mobile Commerce Daily is the entity that awarded eBay this title, and Giselle Tsirulnik, its senior editor, supplied quite a number of reasons for the judgment in an article today. For starters, eBay’s sales were impressive, with about 1.5 million items changing hands thanks to mobile transactions during the holiday season.
Then there was a nifty promotion using a Mobile Boutique to consider, the success of the eBay iPhone application, and the introduction of the separate Deals application. Plus, as Tsirulnik wrote, “EBay-owned online ticket marketplace StubHub went mobile in 2009,” and PayPal took a lot of steps forward, too.
All of which appears to put eBay in an admirable position moving forward, since the growing popularity of iPhones and Android devices is sure to have people buying more stuff online in the future.
Of course, there are other factors to consider when thinking about a company’s success or failure, and eBay critics will be pleased to hear that it’s not having a good day on the stock market. Despite getting the Mobile Retailer of the Year award, eBay shares are down 2.43 percent right now.
Related Articles:
> eBay Declares Mobile Success For Holiday Season
> eBay Fined $2.6 Million Over LVMH Sales
> eBay Previews Possible Geotargeting Feature For Sellers
Google Reveals Factors for Ranking Tweets
It’s ok to say “no” to Twitter if that’s your thing. There’s a chance that it just doesn’t fit into your strategy or help you achieve your goals. That’s cool. However, if it is your thing, you may be interested in how Google ranks tweets. That is if search marketing is your thing.
Do you see Twitter as important to an effective search marketing campaign? Share your thoughts here.
Google and Microsoft almost simultaneously announced deals with Twitter a few months back, that would give the companies access to tweets in real-time to fuel their respective search engines’ real-time results. Microsoft immediately launched their version, but it was separate from the regular Bing search engine. Google waited a while, but eventually started incorporating real-time results right into regular Google SERPs (including not only tweets, but various other sources).
After the Twitter deals were announced, Bing came out and said, “If someone has a lot of followers, his/her Tweet may get ranked higher. If a tweet is exactly the same as other Tweets, it will get ranked lower.”
Google was not as vocal about how it would rank tweets and other real-time results, but the company has now shed a bit of light on that via an interview with MIT’s Technology Review. David Talbot interviewed Google “Fellow” Amit Singhal, who has led development of real-time search at the company. According to him, Google also ranks tweets by followers to an extent, but it’s not just about how many followers you get. It’s about how reputable those followers are.
Singhal likens the system to the well-known Google system of link popularity. Getting good links from reputable sources helps your content in Google, so having followers with that some kind of authority theoretically helps your tweets rank in Google’s real-time search.
“One user following another in social media is analogous to one page linking to another on the Web. Both are a form of recommendation,” Singhal says. “As high-quality pages link to another page on the Web, the quality of the linked-to page goes up. Likewise, in social media, as established users follow another user, the quality of the followed user goes up as well.”
But that’s only one factor.
Do you commonly use hashtags in your tweets? If your goal is to rank in Google’s real-time search index, you may want to cut down on that practice, because according to Singhal, that is a big red flag for a lower quality tweet. This seems to be part of Google’s spam control strategy.
Another noteworthy excerpt from the interview:
Another problem: how, if someone is searching for “Obama,” to sift through White House press tweets and thousands of others to find the most timely and topical information. Google scans tweets to find the “signal in the noise,” he says. Such a “signal” might include a new onslaught of tweets and other blogs that mention “Cambridge police” or “Harry Reid” near mentions of “Obama.” By looking out for such signals, Google is able to furnish real-time hits that contain the freshest subject matter even for very common search terms.
Well, we certainly know more about Google’s strategy for tweet ranking now, but there are still plenty of questions about it. What is Google’s stance is on Ghost Tweeting? Are Google’s ranking factors a good reason to create and follow more Twitter lists in hopes for gaining more reputable industry followers?
The factors mentioned aren’t the only ones Google employs. It’s not like Google is going to tell us everything. It also helps to keep in mind that real-time search spans far beyond just tweets. Still, Twitter is clearly a big part of it, and even the significance of tweets themselves will evolve in time.
Google says it hopes to factor in geo-location data (with regards to tweets) into the real-time search results at some point. Google and Twitter engineers frequently collaborate on real-time search, which Google itself says is evolving.
By the way, it stands to reason that Google’s strategy for ranking tweets probably shares similarities for how it ranks content from other sources drawn from for real-time search.
Is ranking in Google’s real-time search important to your strategy? Discuss here.